| | Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? |    |
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zeruyo
Joined : 20 Apr 2006
Posts : 57
Localisation : Rome
|  Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ?  Fri 29 Sep à 8:49 | |
| | I agree with Charles of course but I understand the point of view of Scott being a musician whose musical taste is oriented towards a more fusion style where each hit of every drum could be measured with an atomic clock. This is the same reason I couldn't play a fusion tune for more than a minute. |
|  | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Fri 29 Sep à 21:08 | |
| | CharlesM wrote: | JD as sloppy ?
I must say that this comes as a shock to me.
So far JD is up there in my list of favorite drummers. Since I know next to nothing about drummer's technique I will give you the benefit of the doubt. But for me JD is a great "tension builder", and the drummer that I like tend to be very good at adding a lot of "drama" to the music.
Like Tony Williams, which is my favorite drummer of all time. I am not sure what he was playing with the Miles David quintet was technically up there, but the places he choose to play certain patterns ( and the pattern themselves) just gives the music ,as well as Miles or for that matter Sam Rivers (in "Spring". Which is way up there in my list of favorite albums of all times) or Wayne Shorter solos another dimension.
CM |
Hey brother,
Jack is certainly a very good drummer; no doubt about that. One of the things that draws us to certain sets of music, or even a particular musician is the relationship that we develop with them as we intake their music. Some can’t understand Five Elements, while we at this forum relate to it deeply. Love for anything is personal, very personal, but there must be something that attracts us. I don’t relate to what Jack is doing on drum, but because something about him draws your interest, that helps me to listen more carefully and extract the elements of his music that I do enjoy. He has done many, many great things.
I like what you had to say about drummers helping to build the drama and playing appropriately in the right spots. That’s how I look at drumming as well. You reference a good list of names, Charles.
Thank you, Charles. Keep posting and keep challenging me! I enjoy that.
Respectfully,
Free |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Sat 30 Sep à 3:44 | |
| | zeruyo wrote: | | I agree with Charles of course but I understand the point of view of Scott being a musician whose musical taste is oriented towards a more fusion style where each hit of every drum could be measured with an atomic clock. This is the same reason I couldn't play a fusion tune for more than a minute. |
Nah, that’s not really a good understanding of how I view music. Fusion isn’t about perfection, its about music. Nor is funk about anything specific….like fusion, it is a well understood way of communicating a feeling. The notes and how they are collected, create a type of sound; in this case funk. Traditional jazz is essentially the same thing. It’s just a different way of expressing. But none of these sets of music should be tied down to an idea that the music is perfect in its timing. In fact, Steve’s music is the most perfect music I’ve ever heard as far as timing is concerned. There are a few small spots here and there, but its quite rare.
Steve has given me a completely new way of listening to music. In fact, I could almost say that I don't listen to music, rather I see it, or feel it emotionally. The bottom line for me regarding good music would be that it must tell a story of some sort. Therefore, whether music is fusion, rock, funk, swing, country, gospel or whatever, is irrelevant. As Steve often says, music and how it is played is like a language. I view music in the same general way, and I would add that group music is about several people communicating to each other within their own personal language, yet all languages come to meet as one source of communication.
When I listen to the music of Jack, I see a complete picture. When I listen to Jacks music, I hear a complete whole, not just 75% of his playing. He has four limbs, thus each limb contains 25% of all possible music that a drummer is able to produce. As a former drum teacher, I always taught the importance of the left foot, often the most neglected element of a drummer. I would teach my students to play their left foot on every whole note, half note, quarter note and even eight notes while playing their typical snare, bass and ride rhythms. This allows the drummer to have that constant tapping sound as if he/she were using the hi-hat with their stick, but the truth is that they are using their foot. This frees up both arms to do tom tom work, percussive work and cymbal work.
I would also teach my students to play all “&” notes. They would include 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & notes. This is an off tempo type of sound, or called odd notes. So the hi-hat makes its clicking sound four time per measure but only on the & notes. I created about 10-12 different types of exercises like this for just two bars of practice music, meaning that with just two bars of practice music, there are approximately 10-12 different ways of playing it with the hi-hat. In the end, my students have a solid grip and command of how to use their left foot in a wide range of situations.
What does this do?
~~It helps the student to develop “auto pilot” skills that allow them to freely maneuver throughout improvisation and soloing.
~~It helps to maintain a solid timing base for the group, especially for yourself during a
solo
~~It helps to ensure that we aren’t late (too far ahead or behind the note) or hesitant. Confidence can be heard in music. As I’ve said before, good music is an open window into the heart and mind of the person creating the music.
I think we all like the same general elements that form music. For example, I highly doubt that it would be acceptable in a classical concert for one violinist to be constantly late. It would play havoc on the final product and it would drive most violin lovers/listeners mad. Well, it’s the same thing for me. As a drummer and teacher, I hear all elements of a drummer and how those elements relate to the rest of the elements that the other band members bring to the table. I would never expect a non drummer to hear and comprehend all of the things that the drummer is actually doing. But in my drumming mind, I not only hear the music, but I attempt to see the drummer playing their part. Thus another example of how music can be seen and even felt.
I hope this helps to give a better understanding where I am coming from on this. If not, no big deal.
Scott |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Wed 4 Oct à 4:10 | |
| BTW: I just listened to Dejohnette with the Scofied band from 1990. Its very, very cool and I was pretty impressed with how Dejohnette expressed himself within the context of Johns music.
Thanks for you patience as I learn about Jack and his prominent position within the drumming and music worlds. |
| | | | CharlesM
Joined : 07 Jun 2006
Posts : 100
Localisation : Maryland (USA)
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Thu 5 Oct à 3:52 | |
| I assume you've already listened to "Triplicate"
CM |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Thu 5 Oct à 10:49 | |
| | CharlesM wrote: | I assume you've already listened to "Triplicate"
CM |
No, unfortunately I haven't. However, I've been listening to the Kenny Garrett / Dejohnette Tokyo 1996 live concert. Charles, that's a total gem in music! KG as of today became an instant favorite for piano. Jack, though he had his same ol' lazy left foot, he was as sharp as a knife with the rest of the kit. Actually, Jack was incredible! I've never heard Jack as confident as he seemed to be in this performance.
I don't think you or Zeruyo mentioned the Tokyo concert, and if that's true, then check THAT out! I think you guys will REALLY enjoy that set of music.
Peace |
| | | | zeruyo
Joined : 20 Apr 2006
Posts : 57
Localisation : Rome
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Fri 6 Oct à 18:04 | |
| | Freewheelin' wrote: | | CharlesM wrote: | I assume you've already listened to "Triplicate"
CM |
However, I've been listening to the Kenny Garrett / Dejohnette Tokyo 1996 live concert. ....
I don't think you or Zeruyo mentioned the Tokyo concert, and if that's true, then check THAT out! I think you guys will REALLY enjoy that set of music.
Peace |
maybe you mean Keith Jarrett instead of Kenny Garrett. I know almost each recording of this trio (and i'm lucky that i did see them live), but i suggested the ones I prefer. Standards Live is my favourite.
I didn't have time to point my ears to the JD left foot but i'm beginning to believe that maybe could be the reason I feel an unusual rhythm orchestration when i hear JD, that's the thing i love. I'll let you know... |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Fri 6 Oct à 18:29 | |
| | Yes, you're right. Keith Jarrett. |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Mon 9 Oct à 7:17 | |
| I stand corrected.
I've just viewed three Dejohnette videos and now agree that he is one of the best. I simply was amazed at what I saw him do with his left hand. I've never seen anything like it!
Much thanks,
Scott |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Mon 9 Oct à 7:26 | |
| Yes, there is some incredible "magic" in the Standards. I don't know how is passed me by the first time; I'm just glad that I see what you're talking about.
 |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Wed 8 Nov à 3:07 | |
| When talking about the mastery of the left foot while able to do essentially whatever you want with the other three limbs, this is precisely what I am talking about:
http://drummerworld.com/Videos/horatiohernandezwarner.html
Horacia is absolutely one of the very best. Watch out, there is some heavy bass drum that can distort your speakers. |
| | | | Dimitri E.B.
Joined : 03 Apr 2006
Posts : 254
Localisation : Paris
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Wed 8 Nov à 11:22 | |
| Impressive yes 
He blew me away once when i saw him perform with Kip hanrahan, years ago and I wont forget this concert.
_________________
www.stevecolemanarchives.com |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Wed 8 Nov à 15:10 | |
| | Dimitri E.B. wrote: | Impressive yes
He blew me away once when i saw him perform with Kip hanrahan, years ago and I wont forget this concert. |
You're a lucky man to have seen him. I've decided that I've got to have just about everything that this guy has done. One thing to note, though, it seems that the rhythm he plays is completely on auto pilot. In the two different pieces that I've seen him in, he's playing the exact same rhythm with the left foot. Therefore, in a sense, it could be said that it is "thoughtless" playing (the left foot). To be able to play ever so polyrhythmic, though, will always be impressive.
I love the drum intro to The X Format...Smitty was amazing. Side note: have any of you ever noticed the click track that bleeds through to the mics? Kind of interesting as we don't hear that anywhere else in Coleman's music.
Peace |
| | | | CharlesM
Joined : 07 Jun 2006
Posts : 100
Localisation : Maryland (USA)
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Thu 9 Nov à 2:32 | |
| | Freewheelin' wrote: | | Dimitri E.B. wrote: | Impressive yes
He blew me away once when i saw him perform with Kip hanrahan, years ago and I wont forget this concert. |
You're a lucky man to have seen him. I've decided that I've got to have just about everything that this guy has done. One thing to note, though, it seems that the rhythm he plays is completely on auto pilot. In the two different pieces that I've seen him in, he's playing the exact same rhythm with the left foot. Therefore, in a sense, it could be said that it is "thoughtless" playing (the left foot). To be able to play ever so polyrhythmic, though, will always be impressive.
I love the drum intro to The X Format...Smitty was amazing. Side note: have any of you ever noticed the click track that bleeds through to the mics? Kind of interesting as we don't hear that anywhere else in Coleman's music.
Peace |
YEp i agree very impressive.
what do you mean by the click track ? |
| | | | Freewheelin'
Joined : 11 Sep 2006
Posts : 137
| | Subject: Re: Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ? Thu 9 Nov à 3:40 | |
| As soon as Smitty starts playing, you can hear a metronome or click track. This is probably when the recording engineers turned on his mics. Anyway, the click track is per every eighth note. Its pretty faint, but clearly audible. Its not a mark against them and doesn't detract from the playing for me, but it is something kind of interesting to chat about. As soon as you are able to hear it, you'll hear it everytime (at least I do).
Good day!
Dim, so what are you up to these days? In other words, what are you doing to earn a living? Hopefully you're involved with music. |
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