Who's your favorite Steve Coleman drummer ?

Clever!

Kind regards

Joined : 11 Sep 2006 Posts : 137

Joined : 20 Apr 2006 Posts : 57 Localisation : Rome

freewheelin':
at this point i'd put an ear at jack de johnette, i'm almost sure that at least weckl will leave his position

I have meant the following 2 videos in Dim’s FTP:
Dave Holland Quartet
• 1989 St Gerold Jazz Nights in Austria
Five Elements
• 30/03/90 Burghausen, Germany.

You can find these videos in the chapter „videos“ in Dim’s FTP.

You can see „Smitty“ on these Videos not much. But it is enough for me to get an impression of his kind of moving.

I’ll try to answer more soon.

Manfred

Joined : 11 Sep 2006 Posts : 137

Joined : 11 Sep 2006 Posts : 137

Joined : 20 Apr 2006 Posts : 57 Localisation : Rome

Joined : 11 Sep 2006 Posts : 137

Bummer. The local library system doesn't have any of these titles that you recommend. I'll have to wait before I check them out.

As far as your ftp software goes, I'll get that download sometime today and will get things worked out over the next few days. Really, really busy right now with tones of crazy stuff going on.

Zeruyo, I appreciate you help and support.

I'm glad to be a part of what you guys have been doing.

Peace

Joined : 11 Sep 2006 Posts : 137

Ok Zeruyo,

You've got me going with Jack.

Here's what I've just ordered:

Album Album
Give And Take W/ Mike Stern
Keith Jarrett at the Blue Note
Music for the fifth world
Music from the hearts of the masters
Night W/ John Abercrombie
The out-of-towners W/ Keith Jarrett
Parallel realities
Standards. Vol. 1
Standards. Vol. 2
Time on my hands W/ John Scofield
Tokyo '96 W/ Keith Jarrett
Whisper not W/ Keith Jarre

Looking forward to a new journey into music. One of my drum teachers of probably two decades ago really likes Jack, so I'll give these works a good listening to.

We should probably start a new thread. I'll work on that.

Hi Scott!

Thank you very much for all the precious thoughts, personal impressions, good feeling and fiery engagement you brought in your several posts.

I try to add some thoughts:

I also think that Steve Coleman is one of the outstanding musicians of Jazz-History (and the greatest among the actual) but I see him more connected with others to whom he is referring: Charlie Parker, Coltrane … and I don’t want to forget Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk etc..

When I listen to Bunky Green I hear a bit from where Coleman is coming. Recently I listened to a tune by Henry Threadgill and I had to smile because something reminded me of Coleman. Coleman seems to thank Von Freeman, Sam Rivers etc. for what he got from them. In his younger days he went to older musicians and asked them. He seems to have close contact to older musicians and to Jazz-tradition though he plays his own music. I think that one of the things which make him strong is his connection to rich subcultures – his ability to learn, to extract an essence from different things and transpose it into his own music. He is the tip of an iceberg.

In a similar way I don’t want to disregard drummers like Jack DeJohnette, Elvin Jones, Rashied Ali, Andrew Cyril, Tony Williams, Max Roach etc.. I like these connections – though I like the rhythms of the Coleman Bands most.

I was more focused on the last Coleman recordings and so I preferred the later drummers of the band. Charles’ preference for Smitty Smith brought me back to him. You wrote: “Smitty has a fluidity and relaxed nature to his drumming that I haven't heard in any drummer.” I agree completely.
I think: His playing is extremely sophisticated, clever, with a special hovering. He produces constantly very complex textures with great ease. This seemed similar to the character of Coleman’s playing.

On the other hand I don’t like Rickman’s playing less. I don’t regard it as too perfect but … it is hard to explain … Dizzy said about Parker: he had pyrotechnics … every beat of Rickman seems to strike a spark. He has an enormous tension, clearness and vividly expression of motions – altogether: great style. Maybe Coleman’s own playing developed in this direction: clearer, more expressive, more vividly etc. ??????

So I can’t say whom I like more.

I also liked Tyshawn Sorey: I regard his playing as a soft but mighty flood, with a “free” tendency.

Manfred
Smile

Joined : 11 Sep 2006 Posts : 137

Wow, Manfred, your words are as smooth and rich as butter. I read these words and I know that you know what you're talking about, much more than I do. I can't believe how fortunate I am to be here. Thank you!!!

Maybe you can help me understand the actual connection between these the Monks, Parkers and Coletranes, etc... I bought some of that music based upon Coleman referencing them as influencial musicians, but I see a completely different set of music.

Steve has written his own form of theory (if I remember correctly), thus, we have a completely new sound. Even my wife is able to pick out a Coleman compilation as soon as it begins to play. It has a quality or form about it that our ears have never heard. Of course, I'm talking about the arrangement of notes being played, lets say, back to back. The structure of notes alone makes Coleman unique to any other musician, as he combines traditions and adds yet even more of his own personal "tradition" to the music.

There's even yet another portion to his music that is unique. This is his ability to play complex odd time signatures. Of course, people and other cultures have been playing odd time signatures for perhaps thousands of years, but Coleman does and his musicians are able to do it at what I think is the highest level that our planet has ever seen. I am not as familiar with the last four releases, so I'm only referring to his early and middle years, including the Genesis CDs with Rickman.

There is yet even another element that I think is missing from the early years and this the advancement of how we use our instruments today. The double bass drum, for example, wasn't implemented until 1954 or 1956 I think, and even then, the drummers of those days didn't use the double bass drum the way that we use it today, you know, with foot flams and paradiddles etc. The same thing must be the case with all other instruments. New techniques are developed, thus we are a more musical society than days of old. Can you imagine what Beethoven and Gershwin would do with recording studios today? Oh, the music!!! Or to be able to program music so that you could hear it played back at the moment. Just think what these great men of the romantic era could have brought to us!!

The Monks and Parkers weren't playing these complex time rhythm, although I do believe that Coletrane produced on album that was played largely in odd time, but not like Coleman. We are clearly watching the beginning of a new form of music that we see in Coleman. And this elevated form of music isn't just being found in Coleman, but its appearing in heavy metal bands and rock bands....and this too, is some fine, fine music in terms of skill and balance.

I rambled on a bit there, so I'll re-ask the question. What is the actual connection between Coleman and these other musicians? Because his music is so different, what qualities is he taking from the previous generation and implementing into his music?

Thanks, Manfred. I am at your feet with respect.

Joined : 20 Apr 2006 Posts : 57 Localisation : Rome

wow, it looks like scott gave extra fuel to this forum!! cheers

My opinion about Steve's sense of beat is that maybe we have to stop to believe that he and his various groups think about playing in odd tempo signatures. Maybe in the early compositions and recordings could be the case. I think (and it's a sort of intuition) that, during the years, they developed some kind of improvisation on rhythm structures. Of course when they play a theme there is some type of signature but i'm not sure he communicate a new composition to the rhythm section using conventional 7/4 or 15/8 or whatever else. I love to think that they share a basic pulsation on which the interplay do the rest.
I would like to explain better what I mean but writing in english makes me sweat a lot