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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
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CharlesM
Joined : 07 Jun 2006
Posts : 100
Localisation : Maryland (USA)
|  Subject: Re: An interesting text  Fri 16 Mar à 1:59 | |
| | I do not know of any but I am more and more convinced that the best access to SC's approach / philosophy, all these things about symbols, is through Schwaller de Lubicz " The Temple of Man". I received the huge 2 volumes a few month ago, and started reading it. It's very complex (at least at the beginning) but I can see a lot of stuff that SC have been referencing here and there. |
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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Sat 17 Mar à 9:03 | |
| My problem is: I don’t believe in many things which captivate Coleman. On the other hand I love his music and I see that his philosophical perspective is really relevant to his music. I like this perspective but I largely don’t agree with the CONTENT of his philosophical perspective. I mean: I like to think about life as a whole, about nature, about how we are constructed, how we are connected with all other things etc. … And I like many things he is talking about as really nice stories, as fantastic inspirations. And when I read already for the first time that he likes Egyptian things I thought: There is great elegance in Egyptian things and there is great elegance in Coleman’s music. – But I cannot idealize Egyptian culture as a whole. I hate the suppression and exploitation of the people. I see all the foolish things in any culture. It is cruel and completely crazy to waste thousands of human lives to build up these ugly geometric stone-hills called pyramids. All the high cultures produced great things but also a lot of injustice, absurdity and craziness. It’s easy to find that in our so called “Western” culture but there is no hope to find anywhere a better world. But on the other hand these philosophical and artistic games with thoughts about how it could be better are animating. They fulfil a human want (need?). … … … I don’t know … Maybe I don’t know anything … 
You see: I am trying to find a point of view … something like a meta-level which helps me to connect these things, to live in peace with Coleman’s music and thoughts 
And maybe this trying is the crucial thing: It is a strong animation in thinking and feeling - like this music too.  |
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CharlesM
Joined : 07 Jun 2006
Posts : 100
Localisation : Maryland (USA)
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Sun 18 Mar à 20:11 | |
| | Manfred wrote: | | I hate the suppression and exploitation of the people. I see all the foolish things in any culture. It is cruel and completely crazy to waste thousands of human lives to build up these ugly geometric stone-hills called pyramids. All the high cultures produced great things but also a lot of injustice, absurdity and craziness. |
I suppose to be consistent with yourself, you will need to reject the whole of the Greek culture, because slavery was prominent in that society. You should then never read Plato, Aristotle, and Phytagoras, for the same reason.
Also there is one thing that is important when it comes to ancient egypt. Lots of people have manipulated, or over emphasized some aspect of the society, to serve their own agenda, for example denigrate it to as to put Greece in the forefront of modern human civilization. Where have you read about millions of people dying to buid the pyramids ? There's a lot of ideology in the way people write about ancient egypt . Have you heard about Cheickk Anta Diop ?
In any case, it seems contradictory to say on one hand " I like this perspective but I largely don’t agree with the CONTENT of his philosophical perspective " and on the other hand " I am trying to find a point of view … something like a meta-level which helps me to connect these things, to live in peace with Coleman’s music and thoughts ".
The only key to these, this meta-level as you call it, is the "Temple of Man". And the content of the book as to do more with something universal than it would have to do really with ancient egypt the political/historical entity itself.
Keep you mind open and read man. |
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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Wed 21 Mar à 17:19 | |
| Let me add some more thoughts:
Pyramids:
They are build by manual labor – very much and very hard manual labor! Nobody does such work without need! – All “high” cultures are kleptocracies – based on blood, sweat and tears of suppressed people.
There were 3 “high” cultures close together: Mesopotamia, Egypt and Greece. And they were coincidentally nearby the borders of 3 continents: Mesopotamia was in “Asia”, Egypt in “Africa” and Greece in “Europe”. But these borders are completely random! These borders only exist in our heads!!!!
I may like some Egyptian things (for example: aesthetics). I may like one of Plato’s ideas. But I don’t idealize the whole thinking of a person and I don’t idealize a whole “culture” – whatever a “culture” may be.
I am very sceptical about things like “HIGH” culture, “greatness”, the European (Western) arrogance … and I am also sceptical about the efforts to get an opposite “greatness” (Cheickk Anta Diop).
I think in general: Some ideas are true in a rather “objective” sense. For example: I read that scientists found out that 99 % of the human genes are the same as the genes of the chimpanzees. So we descend from them. It sounds believable und so I take it as a fact.
There are also a lot of thoughts which are not “objective” – but though very important. Ultimately the direction of all thinking is: good emotion. Many thoughts are dealing directly with emotion. For example: I am thinking a lot about music though I am not a musician. Why? Because it is a pleasure for me. – We are cultural creatures. We use music, stories, imaginations etc. to be a bit at home on earth. We use it to connect with others, to have an identity, to get meaning … to feel better.
These rather “emotional” thoughts are very different between different people. A group of persons may have a special set of such thoughts. Others don’t understand it and they say this group is crazy – you know, the common shit. – But when I find out the emotional aspects of these thoughts I get a common base that helps to understand. Because our emotions are rather similar while our stories are very different. - That is the meta-level I mentioned.
Speaking about Egypt and Coleman: I cannot believe in astrological and esoteric things in an “objective” sense. But I can take it as rather “emotional” thoughts and try to find out the emotional essence of them. That is how I try to participate without losing my own system of thoughts. |
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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
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CharlesM
Joined : 07 Jun 2006
Posts : 100
Localisation : Maryland (USA)
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Sun 8 Apr à 1:21 | |
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Thanks for the post. I read the whole thing. Nothing really knew here. The thing that shows often in these interviews is SC trying to communicate something whithout saying too much, by staying in generalities. Often I read or heard SC claiming that things are too complicated for people to understand, I do not agree.
There is a say in French that goes like this " ce qui se concoit clairement, s'ennonce aisement ". In other words where concepts are really well understood, it is easy to explain them. |
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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Thu 26 Apr à 12:16 | |
| Recently I watched the video on Dim’s ftp about clinics:
28, 29, 30 /04/04 California Insitute of the Arts (CalArts), Los Angeles.
My English is bad. So I could only understand parts of Coleman’s speech. Especially one part helped me to understand things better: He said: He thinks about a lot of different things in a lot of different perspectives … spiritual stuff, dreams, logic, figure stuff … He uses everything! ………
I see that in combination with his statement that his music expresses what he is. – I think life always happens on many different levels at the same time and if music expresses a lot of these levels at the same time it is really rich. That is an important reason why I love this music. From this point of view I have no longer problems with pyramids and stuff like that.
I think I should listen to “Ausar (Reincarnation)” (CD: The Sonic Language of Myth) yet again – because the atmosphere of this song is really great – especially in the passage to the playing in the chamber of the pyramid … |
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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
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Manfred
Joined : 04 Apr 2006
Posts : 155
Localisation : Austria/Europe
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Sun 29 Apr à 18:42 | |
| In the mentioned long interview Coleman talks about Sonny Stitt.
I found a short video with Sonny Stitt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWjYMGI3DM
I really like Stitt’s playing … and I like how he acts too … a cool cat … a clever fox! |
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Dimitri E.B.
Joined : 03 Apr 2006
Posts : 254
Localisation : Paris
| | Subject: Re: An interesting text Thu 17 May à 13:41 | |
| Manfred,
thaks a lot for theses videos.
the stars stuff is really incredible, such a beauty is unrivalled to me.
Very recently I had the opportunity to watch the moon thru a telescope.
Man, this was one of the main event in my whole life, believe it or not.
I was watchin the various seas and mountains as If I was there.
This had an hypnottic effect on me, I could not retract my eye from the telescope.
Next WE, Im going back to the place where is the telescope just to watch the moon once again, a very unique experience.
About the Sonny Stiit vide, that is the first time I saw him playing live, so a big thank you for that too as I really like him a lot.
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www.stevecolemanarchives.com |
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